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Cast Your Vote:

    • He is right -- Votes: 36
    • He is wrong -- Votes: 36
Bangtail 50 kids; Houston, TX, United States 7754 posts
Feb 7th '13

Actually, I don't think he has a case because he came out and said specifically his reasoning for denying them the cake. Had he just said no and left out any mention of race, religion, sex, gender, or sexuality, it would've been one thing. A business cannot legally deny someone services based on any of the above from my understanding. I support a person's right to conduct business as they see fit but allowing one person to deny services to the public based on religious preference opens up a Pandora's box that just shouldn't be opened. This is a very different situation then forcing an employer to pay for or cover benefits for their own employees based on religious beliefs.

user banned 1 child; Nunya, CA, United States 6369 posts
Feb 7th '13
Quoting Taryn - Anya's mommy:" not for discrimination reasons"


So, you believe that the gay couple have more of a right to have their cake made than the right of this PRIVATE BUSINESS OWNER to refuse service for a conviction that he obviously takes very seriously? Why do THEIR "rights" trump his? I'd love to know/



Other bakeries can make the cake. WHY force the ONE that won't? Why is it even an issue??

Bangtail 50 kids; Houston, TX, United States 7754 posts
Feb 7th '13

<blockquote><b>Quoting Sarah Bare-ah♡:</b>" I agree, after doing some digging and researching of laws he made it known hes discriminating and that is against the law. "</blockquote>



A business has every right to operate with certain religious principles but they cannot turn away customers that don't adhere to those principles.

Bangtail 50 kids; Houston, TX, United States 7754 posts
Feb 7th '13

<blockquote><b>Quoting ~Julie Blue Eyes~:</b>" So, you believe that the gay couple have more of a right to have their cake made than the right of this ... [snip!] ... trump his? I'd love to know/ Other bakeries can make the cake. WHY force the ONE that won't? Why is it even an issue??"</blockquote>




No one is forcing him to make the cake. He could've just said no and left it alone. You have to think from the other side. What if the baker was a staunch atheist and wouldn't bake the cake because it would be used in a religious ceremony? Or, what if the baker didn't believe in interracial marriage so they wouldn't bake the cake? When a person gets into business they are implying that they've read the laws on discrimination while providing services and they will follow them. You cannot deny services to one customer based on religion, etc..., that you would otherwise provide to another. It simply is not legal.

user banned 1 child; Nunya, CA, United States 6369 posts
Feb 7th '13
Quoting Bangtail:" <blockquote><b>Quoting ~Julie Blue Eyes~:</b>" So, you believe that the gay couple ... [snip!] ... deny services to one customer based on religion, etc..., that you would otherwise provide to another. It simply is not legal."


You know what...I couldn't care less if someone refused ANY kind of service to me, because there are simply a hundred more that would.



Butthurt Betties. All of em. It's a CAKE. He didn't take a hit out on them.



You're right though. He should have lied about why he refused. Lyings good. We was honest and he's getting nailed for it.

Bangtail 50 kids; Houston, TX, United States 7754 posts
Feb 7th '13

<blockquote><b>Quoting ~Julie Blue Eyes~:</b>" You know what...I couldn't care less if someone refused ANY kind of service to me, because there are ... [snip!] ... You're right though. He should have liled about why he refused. Lyings good. We was honest and he's getting nailed for it."</blockquote>




You're thinking about it from an emotional standpoint instead of a logical one. Think about Chik-fil-A. The owner has made his Christian beliefs and values well-known, but the company would never deny services to anyone based on them because that's illegal. Whether it sucks or not, that's a part of doing business that everyone knows when they get into it.



No one said anything about lying, I said he should've left out details to remain within his rights as a business owner. Yes, a business can deny services to anyone for any reason UNLESS those reasons fall under discrimination.

user banned 1 child; Nunya, CA, United States 6369 posts
Feb 7th '13
Quoting Bangtail:" <blockquote><b>Quoting ~Julie Blue Eyes~:</b>" You know what...I couldn't care less ... [snip!] ... as a business owner. Yes, a business can deny services to anyone for any reason UNLESS those reasons fall under discrimination."


She has bought from this bakery before. He served her and sold things to her. You are seeing one woman's "rights" challenged by another man's "rights". It's not that she is gay. He just doesn't want his name or company name attached to an event that he feels is morally wrong. A wedding represents something. The selling of a muffin, doesn't.



To him, he feels he is advocating for something that he feels strongly opposed to. He's right. It sends a mixed signal about who he is.



PLENTY of great bakeries out there. Cake Boss just stepped up.



Then again, I don't think anyone should have to serve anyone else, if they don't want to. Word of mouth can make or break a business. He could be buried by this or his business could flourish, in spite of it. I hope it's the latter.

Bangtail 50 kids; Houston, TX, United States 7754 posts
Feb 7th '13

<blockquote><b>Quoting ~Julie Blue Eyes~:</b>" She has bought from this bakery before. He served her and sold things to her. You are seeing one woman's ... [snip!] ... make or break a business. He could be buried by this or his business could flourish, in spite of it. I hope it's the latter."</blockquote>



I'm not saying that I can't see his POV, but it does boil down to straight v. gay because he would not have the same issue if it wasn't a gay wedding. I'm not even saying I support any legal action against him. What I'm saying is that the moment he said he wouldn't do it because he doesn't believe in gay marriage, he lost his legal right to deny service and instead fell under laws of discrimination. Unfortunately, he gave up certain rights, be that wrong or right, when he became the owner of a business that provides services to the public. While it may work in his favor that he previously did business with her with no qualms, he shot himself in the foot, from a legal standpoint, by releasing a public statement. Honesty is not always the best policy when you're trying to avoid getting sued.



Yes, in a perfect world, businesses could conduct business as they see fit, but under our current laws they do not have that right.

IOnlyMakeBoys (B.B.M) 2 kids; 1 angel baby; Texas 4754 posts
Feb 7th '13
Quoting Bangtail:" <blockquote><b>Quoting ~Julie Blue Eyes~:</b>" She has bought from this bakery before. ... [snip!] ... in a perfect world, businesses could conduct business as they see fit, but under our current laws they do not have that right."



I agree that you have to be tactful about it but I still think it is ridicules that a customer can flaunt their beliefs or lifestyle in a business but an owner cannot do the same. To me it is discrimination that a business owner is forced to wave his morals, beliefs or religious practices so that he may not possibly insult a customer when a customer can sue them over thiers.

user banned 1 child; Nunya, CA, United States 6369 posts
Feb 7th '13

<blockquote><b>Quoting Mylittleone's (B.B.M):</b>" I agree that you have to be tactful about it but I still think it is ridicules that a customer can ... [snip!] ... morals, beliefs or religious practices so that he may not possibly insult a customer when a customer can sue them over thiers."</blockquote>



Well said and I completely agree!

justanothamotha Due January 20; 130 kids; Climax, Michigan 5120 posts
Feb 8th '13
Quoting Mylittleone's (B.B.M):" I agree that you have to be tactful about it but I still think it is ridicules that a customer can ... [snip!] ... morals, beliefs or religious practices so that he may not possibly insult a customer when a customer can sue them over thiers."


No one is saying the business owner can't flaunt his religious beliefs. If he wants to hang a huge effigy of Christ in his business, he can flaunt away. He doesn't have to HIDE his beliefs. He has to abide by fair business practices though as a BUSINESS owner & if he doesn't want to follow anti-discrimination laws then perhaps he shouldn't open a business open to the public. There is a huge difference between saying he can't express his religious beliefs & he can't use them as an excuse to discriminate. She can't sue him because he believes gay marriage is wrong, she can sue him for not selling her a cake because he is discriminating against her in his BUSINESS practices. This really is NO different than a racist saying he'll sell cakes to black people out the back door. He's still selling them cakes right? What's the big deal if they can't walk in his front door? :roll: You can't compare the rights of the customer with the rights of the business owner nor the obligations. If a business (assuming the business is Inc) is guilty of water contamination, no one is going to jail. They may be fined, but there is no criminal prosecution. If YOU do it, you WILL be criminally prosecuted & will more than likely go to jail for the same identical offense. BUSINESS law operates differently& I am not sure how much more clear I can make it if you have no firsthand knowledge of business law. The rights &obligations of the business are NOT identical, nor can they be, as the rights & obligations of the consumer.

Bangtail 50 kids; Houston, TX, United States 7754 posts
Feb 8th '13

<blockquote><b>Quoting justanothamotha:</b>" No one is saying the business owner can't flaunt his religious beliefs. If he wants to hang a huge effigy ... [snip!] ... rights &obligations of the business are NOT identical, nor can they be, as the rights & obligations of the consumer."</blockquote>



Thank you.

Bangtail 50 kids; Houston, TX, United States 7754 posts
Feb 8th '13

<blockquote><b>Quoting Mylittleone's (B.B.M):</b>" I agree that you have to be tactful about it but I still think it is ridicules that a customer can ... [snip!] ... morals, beliefs or religious practices so that he may not possibly insult a customer when a customer can sue them over thiers."</blockquote>




Honestly, it's not about tact. A business owner could say they don't agree with gay marriage as long as they don't deny a customer service based on that. There are plenty of religious businesses out there that make it very clear how they believe. But the law is such that those beliefs cannot be the reason they deny service to someone. Now, they can choose not to sell certain products or provide entire services, but they cannot deny someone a service based on conflicting beliefs that they would otherwise provide if their beliefs did not conflict.



We have a business here in Katy that was on the news because of a picture that said, lets play cowboys and Iranians. Everyone said it was discrimination, but because the company had never denied someone services based on race, it fell under freedom of speech. See the difference?

Kaleighshaleigh 3 kids; USA 7100 posts
Feb 8th '13

It's his business. He can serve whomever he chooses. People can also choose to never visit his business.

Bangtail 50 kids; Houston, TX, United States 7754 posts
Feb 8th '13

<blockquote><b>Quoting Kaleighshaleigh:</b>" It's his business. He can serve whomever he chooses. People can also choose to never visit his business."</blockquote>




Fortunately and unfortunately, that's not true.